‘If Men Can Do These Things, I Can Also Do These Things’

… She knew we had financial crisis and she supported me

Thazun is lucky to be alive. Facing near starvation as a child, Thazun not only survived but managed to study on and off with the help of her family and relatives. While Thazun started school in 1994 in Rambree Township, she had to take a lot of gaps in her studies.

When Thazun’s mother lived away from her children for over two years as a result of forced labour demands imposed by Burmese authorities, Thazun might not have had much but at least she had a teacher.

When my mother was away we had a teacher. She was a primary school teacher in our village school and my mother’s cousin. I think she is good, she knew we had financial crisis and she supported me and gave me some books to study.

Thazun completed 10th standard of school around 2006. After that, she had to stop studying.

My father couldn’t support my education anymore. Some of my friends went for further study but I stayed and helped my mother in making clothes.

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… When I learnt about that

[women’s rights] I could see that we have been abused for a long time

After finishing school, Thazun joined a women’s organisation in Bangladesh.

I worked in a Rakhine [Arakanese] women’s organisation that was founded by migrants from Burma … They want to promote the skills of Rakhine girls. My mother sent me to work there.

Thazun explains that the organisation, Rakhine Women’s Union, has good relations with Women’s League of Burma as well as other Burmese organisations. For the first time ever, Thazun was faced with women’s issues and started to open her eyes to a new reality.

In the organisation we don’t have that many educated girls, and women’s rights is something we don’t really know about. So the chairperson introduced us the principals of human rights and she taught us everything.

Thazun stayed in the organisation for about 2 or 3 years.

I had to translate Burmese to English. I was good in English because my grandfather used to be an English teacher during the British colonial times.

… I got lots of skills there, for the first time I learnt about women’s rights. And when I learnt about that I could see that we have been abused for a long time … They have that hierarchy in their mind and they think they are superior to women. On the other hand, it’s very hard to break down their rules, because they’ve been used to it. It’s very very hard.

 

… They think that if you educate 12 girls it’s equal to educating one boy

When asked how women and girls are treated in the Arakan State, Thazun says that the biggest challenges are related to domestic violence and education.

They think that women can’t make good plans or work for development or for the future. So for education, they think that if you educate 12 girls it’s equal to educating one boy. If you educate one boy he can lead others, but if you educate 12 girls none of them might be able to do that.

… A good housewife is quite opposite to what is believed in with women’s rights. They are good at cleaning the house and looking after the children. They should be good to the husband’s family. Should be educated and lead her husband to be good. If he is still a bad guy after marrying the girl, then she is not a good housewife. A good housewife should lead the husband to be a good man. If he is not, it’s the woman’s fault. Everything depends on the wife. She also has to cook delicious meals.

Most women in Arakan State believe this.

 

If we want to fight for women’s rights, we have to fight a lot

I think recently DVB [Democratic Voice of Burma] started a program that introduced women’s rights in Burmese and sometimes women can see this channel. Some of them understand a little bit now about women’s rights, but they don’t really know how to get these rights because there are still obstacles.

If girls say they want to have equal rights with men there are always old people who stop them. People think that women wanting equal rights is a sin. Like the words of the Buddha: People in the community believe that man can only be God, women cannot pray for being God, so they are superior to women. But they put these ideas into girls’ minds and to the community.

… I think we still need lots of lobbying and campaigning about women’s rights. The first thing is for women to know their rights. If they know their rights, they can protect themselves. But still it’s quite hard to persuade them. They are afraid of their families and elderly people who think that these things are bad and against the religion.

I think Burmese government is not very different from our community men. They don’t give priority for women. That’s why our democracy leader like Aung San Suu Kyi faces a lot of trouble, because she is the only woman. Some people say she is only in this position because of her father, but it is also something about her. She got this position because of her abilities and capabilities, but some people don’t really believe that. If we want to fight for women’s rights, we have to fight a lot.

 

… we have been abused for a long time, and we didn’t really know

I want girls to have equal rights with men. I believe that if men can do these things, I can also do these things because I have my education and I have my skills just like any man. When I first heard about women’s rights, I thought it was weird. Going against older people and the law.

…I think in most cultures [in Burma] it’s the same as with us. In some ethnic cultures, they are even worse than in our community. They treat women very badly. I’m not sure about Kachin or Karen but some Burmese think that women are inferior to men because they think that the husband is their God. I’m not sure…but I think most of them are suffering from the same thing.

When Thazun was working for Rakhine Women’s Union she got a chance to attend an internship in Bangkok with ALTSEAN-Burma.

I got lots of skills there and from that internship I got lots of knowledge about women’s rights and how women have been fighting for their rights for more than centuries. It was very strange for me at first, but later I found out that we really need these things, because we have been abused for a long time, and we didn’t really know we had been abused.

 

If they ask, then you have to pay money

Before Thazun could start her internship with ALTEAN-Burma in Bangkok, she had to travel across Burma, all the way from Bangladesh to Mae Sot.

I think I was 18 or 19 years old at the time … It took more than 8 days, I didn’t stay in one place, I stayed in one place for like one day and then continued. I traveled with one of my sisters. She was my colleague in the organisation and she was attending a program in Chiang Mai.

My father was very worried to have two girls traveling alone. But it was amazing, it was really exciting. No one is controlling you, and you have to be careful, to know what is good and what is bad. My sister was very clever and she knew how to speak with authorities. Sometimes when we had to stop at the gates, the Burmese authorities would ask us lots of questions, like where are you going, why you two girls are traveling alone. She was very good at answering all the questions.

 

If they would catch me, they would investigate the rest of the family

Thazun and her sister traveled across the country, stopping to be investigated at a number of gates, sometimes bribing the authorities and other times being allowed to continue for free. They traveled across rivers and on windy mountains roads on motorbikes, line cars, boats and busses, spending nights in guest houses and homes.

In some gates you don’t have to pay money but some gates you have to pay a lot. And it’s not common for girls to travel from place to place so they investigate you. But if you just talk you can solve the problem, you just pay and bribe them. Sometimes you just give them 500 kyat and they let you go. That was not easy. But it wasn’t very scary, I think…it’s also like, you have some luck, nothing seriously happens when you are traveling.

 

…I don’t think that they are my students or I am their teacher, we’re just friends

After finishing the internship, Thazun stayed in the Arakanese office in Mae Sot for about 2.5 months before making the long journey back to Bangladesh.

When you finish your internship you have to do something for your organisation, you have to give your time. When I went there [Bangladesh], it was easy for me to teach them about human rights and women’s rights, and also to teach English a little bit… And they loved me, because I am sometimes very open minded. I don’t have that…I’m a teacher, I’m a trainer, or I should be well respected. I don’t have those things in my mind, I just want to be free and outside of the class I don’t think that they are my students or I am their teacher, we’re just friends.

When Thazun went back to Bangladesh, she traveled alone.

I already had that experience so I knew what to say, how to treat them, how to respond. And maybe most of the authorities at the gates were busy with road construction from Sittwe to Rangoon so they didn’t really investigate much. But they investigated men and asked them for money.

 

I thought that for my future I should go to Thailand and work

When Thazun was working for her organisation in Bangladesh, she felt that she was still young and hadn’t finished her education. As her parents were getting older, Thazun also felt that she should do more to support her family.

I had only finished my 10th standard and it was a long time ago. I felt like if I just continued working for my organisation the things that I learnt from my internship would soon get lost, because I wouldn’t get more skills. It’s good that you are teaching other young members but in the meantime it decreases your skills because you don’t get new skills. You get experience, but you don’t get skills.

I thought that if I stay there I can’t really support my family. I think my father and mother are getting old, and my sister and brother have their own children. And my other brother is in Bangkok. Even if I lived with my family, the Bangladeshi don’t have job opportunities for youth, especially like us because I don’t know that much Bengali and I can’t really find a good job cause I haven’t finished any education level. I thought that for my future I should go to Thailand and work.

 

I had lots of difficulties in managing all by myself

Thazun traveled across the country again. She arrived in Mae Sot and started working at the market sewing clothes. It didn’t take long to realise it was no way to make a living.

… I knew how to sew clothes. I didn’t get proper wages, sometimes only 40 baht for a day. Sometimes 80 baht or 100 baht but most of the time we didn’t get more than 50 baht. Then I just decided that I should work in a factory.

Shortly after starting to work in a factory in Mae Sot, Thazun began feeling overwhelmed by the working hours and thought that barely making a living with sewing clothes hadn’t been that bad after all.

I started to work in a factory for three days, but I can’t really work there. I don’t know how other people manage to work in a factory. They have to work from 8 in the morning and they get a break from 12-1. Then they have to work again from 1 to 6, and then 6 to 11 at night. I just can’t work there….They worked from 8 am to 11pm with two hours break. It was quite a lot, I don’t know how they manage. I just couldn’t do it.

I heard that working hours should be 6-8 hours, you work in the morning and then have a lunch break, and in the evening at 5 or 6 it’s finished and you don’t have to work anymore. But in a factory you do. And sometimes they have to work overtime, to 1 am at night. I just couldn’t do it. But I had to manage all by myself. I rented a place near the market and I just thought I’ll sew some clothes because I can sew clothes nicely. But I needed to get customers because I was new to that area. Yeah I had lots of difficulties in managing all by myself.

 

When you are skillful and have greater knowledge, you can also do greater things for your country and for the community

Everything changed when one of Thazun’s close friends told her about a study program available for Burmese refugees and migrants on the Thailand-Burma border.

And then one day one of my brothers, who is a student in ACU [Australian Catholic University], told me that there is an ACU program where you can study for diplomas. And I thought I should get education first to have a better job, and to support my family. When you are skillful and have greater knowledge, you can also do greater things for your country and for the community.

… I was seeking for something to further my education, and when I read some of the criteria and when I studied about the program online, then I thought it is very helpful and it might be something that I’m looking for.

So I just applied for ACU and… I had also a lot of difficulties applying for ACU. I don’t know how to ride a bike, and I had to take my exam in Mae Pa [subdivision of Mae Sot outside the town]. My dad’s colleague was helping me. For the last interview I had to ask one of my sisters to use her computer so I could type and answer my questions. And when I went to print, that USB was infected with a virus, all the files, everything… I went again and when I opened it, it was all fine. And when I went back to that shop, the same thing happened. I had to travel from my house to that shop for 7 times, in the rain. I was counting and I was very serious…Everyone in that market was looking at me. I was all alone traveling in the rain with a little umbrella. That was memorable… Luckily I was chosen for ACU.

 

I want to do something for the community and for the organisation, and maybe for Burma one day

Thazun’s parents were very happy and proud to hear the news.

My parents were very happy. My mother felt sorry that she couldn’t continue her children’s education so when I told my mum that ‘mum that I got a chance to study at the university level for a diploma’, she said you did a great job.

My father always supports me for education. My father has worked for politics his whole life. His dream is that, he wants one of his children to follow his path. So most of the children are now with their families and if they can’t really work for their communities, at least he hopes I can be one of them.

I honestly have quite strong feelings for politics. I want to do something for the community and for my organisation, and maybe for Burma some day. After I finish, I’m going to further my education, I want to have a good scholarship if I get a chance. I don’t really need to go to a foreign country, it is OK for me to go to a university in Thailand. I want to further my education more, then when I complete it, first I get a good job so that I can support my family. And then I will work for the community. At university, I want to study political science, something related to social issues. I’m interested in these things.

 

Most people don’t know about human rights, they are too busy working for their families

Working for a better future for her and her family, Thazun hasn’t been able to spend much time with her family.

I last saw my parents 2 years ago, the last time I went to visit Bangladesh. I haven’t seen my brother for 2 or 3 years.

He can’t really visit Mae Sot because he hasn’t gotten proper work yet, he’s just shifting work. I heard in Bangkok some people get 300 baht per day [minimum wage in Thailand] but in Mae Sot you don’t get that. Most of the time 150 or 200 is maybe maximum.

It’s quite different the way Thai people treat the Burmese. Most of the people don’t know about the minimum wage. They just work and they are satisfied with what they get. Most people don’t know about human rights, they are too busy working for their families.

 

… They don’t know what is a computer or what is internet

Thazun also talks about how things have recently changed in Burma.

I have heard from some of my friends that you can talk about politics openly now but you can’t really turn your words into action”. If you are organising a movement or something, then you will be cut.

… And I think when they say there are reforms, you still can’t move freely. It’s quite hard for the citizens and other people. And it’s quite different for the main cities and some towns. In Rangoon Division maybe you can have better communications, for example, if you look at numbers, 10,000 mobile phones being launched to citizens.

Most of these things you get in Rangoon, they don’t share them in ethnic areas. Because it’s the way the authorities have done it. They say you have equal rights, but when you compare the Burmese with other ethnic groups, it’s always been different. I think it’s still different.

I had a phone call from my friend in Rambree and they don’t know what is a computer or what is internet… They don’t know how to use a computer and they don’t know how to connect with the world.

Mostly in the rural areas, they don’t have foreign channels. I think in all of Burma we have 6 channels, all owned by the government. Most of these government channels are available in other areas of Burma. In the cities if they have money, they can buy channels from abroad but in rural areas or other ethnic areas they can’t, it’s very expensive. So they are very far from outside world, they don’t really know what is happening in the outside world.

 

It’s illegal to connect the call

Thazun feels that communication is the biggest and perhaps the only recent positive change in her hometown.

The conflicts between the Arakanese and the Muslims, my friends say that some people spread the news, some youth… They don’t know who they spread the news, but in just a few days the news was spread throughout the Arakan State. Maybe they were using the internet but my friend doesn’t know what they were using. It’s not only about the conflict but information is quicker than before.

Ten years ago I think, we didn’t have telephone in our township. But now I think in one village you have three or four telephones, so if you want to talk and communicate with your relatives then you can. Maybe that is the big change, that you have telephones. I think it’s happened in the last 3 or 5 years.

I call my friends. It’s like we have some people in Myawaddy [Burmese border town opposite to Mae Sot in Thailand], you tell them you want to talk to someone in this part of Burma and they connect you. But it’s against the law. If the Thai or Burmese government finds out you get a fine…Maybe 10,000 baht. It’s illegal to connect the call. We can’t call the town directly, we have to do it step by step.

 

…Because you are doing something right you are being put into prison

Thazun doesn’t know if the recent changes in Burma are genuine, but she has some ideas why the government is embarking on change.

… As you know the Burmese government is going to be the chair in ASEAN. So maybe they want to get some attention from the citizens, and maybe they want to show that they are doing something good for the citizens. I think maybe something like that. It’s like if you really want to have a change from your heart, you wouldn’t do some silly things.

… If you saw the recent case of Ye Min Oo … He was lobbying the people … and he was doing the right thing, because when you are being abused, you have to go against it. And it’s very clear that you are going against it and doing something right, and because you are doing something right you are being put into prison.

If you are changing something, it should be systematic, it should be in a proper way … Like people weren’t really sure whether Ye Min Oo was kept or sent into prison. People didn’t really know if he was hiding, if he was missing. Then after a week they found out that he was sent to prison, in Insein, in Rangoon. If the government wants to do something good, they should be open.

 

… They are afraid of losing their power

When asked how Thazun feels about the international community engaging with the Burmese government, Thazun voices skepticism but also understanding towards international actors.

I think when the Burmese government is opening the door for the international community … They have been trying to reach Burma several times … they have been trying to make Burma into a democratic country for a long time. So when the Burmese government opened the door for them, they are ready to enter.

It’s like the international community trusts the Burmese government, and they think the government will do something good for this country. But I think the government, I don’t really trust the government.

I think it’s honest that the international community want something good for the Burmese people. But on the other hand our Burmese, they want to do, but they are afraid of losing their power. It’s quite hard to put it into words. And politics is always complicated and very complex. I think we have to look and see what they are really doing.

Many people and many pro-democracy organisations have been trying to do the same thing. They want to change the government and change Burma. Most of the people who have done this were sent to prison, so many people are afraid to do the same thing. They think something will happen to them. And in some cases the government gives you the opportunity to do something, and in the same place they stop you from doing things.

It’s quite hard to understand the government’s role. They say that you can do politics freely and you can lobby the people if you are doing good for the country. In the meantime they are arresting the youth and they are putting them into prison. So people really don’t know what to do and how to solve this problem… And lots of instabilities there always. In ethnic places there is also lots of fighting, although they say there are ceasefires but they are still fighting. It’s quite hard to tell.

 

… When they are not educated they don’t really know how to overcome obstacles

As a youth, I don’t have that great position to change the country for a while, because it’s combined with many different things. If you want to have a change we have to take time. We are facing a lot of difficulties and it might be because of one reason. Many of the civilians are not educated, and they can’t really have self-confidence. They are under the control of the government. And when they are not educated they don’t really know how to overcome obstacles.

… First people need to be educated. And I think from education they can have some changes … The civilians are poor. If they want to educate the civilians, they have to have certain things done, in one particular town they will have to set up educational buildings for hundreds of students. I think they should give free education for primary students … if a person has basic education of 10th standard, they can rely on themselves.

 

… If you don’t have a book … how can you study and pass your exams?

When I was studying in Rambree Township, I could see that people were not able to study 10th standard because it’s very hard to even get a book. When most of your family members are working … and they can’t buy a book for you. So if you don’t have a book to write in and study for your lessons, how can you study and pass your exams?

Everything you have to pay for, you buy it from the school. Sometimes you also have to bribe them. The educational system is also bad, because the government has strict rules. Some of the class teachers, they take money. They say they need this and this and money for that and they ask the parents for it. And the parents have to pay them money … without knowing what it’s used for.

The education system is very bad, and very poor. Sometimes students cheat in the exams, but the teachers just pass them. They give them money and the teachers pass them … It’s quite disappointing and it’s a very sad story for the Burmese people. We don’t know where we stand and we don’t have a good future.

When I was studying there we were speaking in Arakanese, but later everyone had to speak Burmese. They took Burman teachers and put them in our schools. It was very hard for the people because most of them couldn’t understand Burmese, they couldn’t understand the teachers or the lessons. They still have Burman teachers there. They don’t know Arakanese, they just speak Burmese.

 

I can find a better job and something greater for my future

Having grown up in poverty in a country with arguably one of the worst education systems in the world, Thazun is among the lucky ones. She is scheduled to graduate from ACU with an internationally recognised Diploma in Liberal Studies within this year.

If I get the diploma and want to go for further education, I can have a good scholarship. I think this is my dream. Then I can find a better job and something greater for my future.

Thazun’s story is based on an interview with Burma Link. Written by Burma Link.