Burma Link | February 1, 2018
This story is an update to the first part of Naw Lay Lit Ray Thaw’s story, published as part of Burma Link’s “Protracted Displacement” longitudinal interview series. Naw Lay Lit Ray Thaw comes from a village in a Karen National Union (KNU) Brigade 6 in Karen State, southeast Burma, where she grew up amidst conflict and Burma Army abuse. When Lay Lit was 10 years old, her mother sent her to Nu Po refugee camp in Thailand with nothing but 15 USD in her pocket and hopes of safety and a chance to go to school. Lay Lit has come a long way since then, and at the time of this interview in October 2017, was finishing her two-year-term as the Secretary of the Karen Student Network Group (KSNG) – an organization with more than 15,000 members who mainly reside in the 7 Karen refugee camps. In this update interview, Lay Lit opens up about her personal life situation and dreams, which are inseparable from the peace and political processes in Burma. She continues to urge the international community to support refugees and IDPs along the border, and to consider carefully how the ‘peace’ funds inside the country are being used. “For us, we are staying close to our community so we know more, because we understand NOTE: This update interview was conducted in October 2017. Parts 1-3 focus on Lay Lit’s background and life experiences in the past as well as the situation during the first interview in June 2017. My life is probably the same. Life is just going normally, not changing, but maybe we can say that [my] feelings, my thinking, are changing. This concerns what I’m feeling, like about the refugee issue; our people are facing more problems that they can [deal with]. I feel more concerned about the peace process also. If we look back to the refugee situation, so many things are changing, like they are facing more problems. Not the same as before. We see that in the past, maybe we just heard what was going to happen someday, but now we see very concretely what they are facing. So that makes me feel, I feel very bad for this situation. Part of the problem that they are facing is that they are facing more worrying, worrying for their life. Because as we know, the main problem is that the supporting groups and donors are trying to reduce their support or have started cutting [funds and services]. If we look back to the refugees and if we look back to the education part, some of the schools have had to cut down. Some primary schools, because there are no more donors, they have had to combine [classes]. According to my experience, when I visited some of the refugee camps, I saw the schools, they were very broken down. They didn’t look like schools. That is when we can see [understand] the situation. They are facing that problem. Now they cannot stay like before. Before we started hearing the information that the donors will start reducing and cutting the support to refugees, and before the refugees had to [start] returning, the camps’ situation [was different] and the schools ran very regularly as before. But when the return process started, the situation got worse. It started after the return process started happening. If we look back at the schools and students in the camps also, they feel depressed. They don’t [want to continue], some of them just want to leave their school. They cooperate less in their community, like with community based organizations for example. For me, as I am working at KSNG [Karen Student Network Group] organization, I can compare my work in the past and now. We feel that in the past more students were interested in cooperating with us. Now the students are getting, like very separate, and they don’t want to cooperate as much. They are just worrying that next year the camp [refugees] will have to return and the situation in the camps will change. So for that reason they feel depressed. Some have become very separated [isolated]. Every day I see [them], not being very organized and not very united. During the last interview conducted in June 2017, Lay Lit left no doubt in that the time is not right for refugees to return to Burma. She still feels the same way and is gravely concerned about the ongoing repatriation planning whilst there are no political solutions or genuine peace. I feel [the same] as before. I don’t believe in the return process and I can’t believe that it is happening [already]. When I see this happening, I feel more worried, I can’t believe it’s happening. In my personal thinking [opinion], the main problem why it’s not good to return, the first thing is the political situation, and the peace process is the most important for me. I want to say that the refugee [situation] happened, was caused, by the civil war in our country and the political issue. When they return, it should be happening when the political situation is better [and] changed in Burma. Without the current political situation changing, without real peace, I don’t think they can return in this situation. According to the political situation, I can see and I can compare the situation and how we cannot see peace, because sometimes I listen to the news, like The Irrawaddy news, RFA and also KIC Karen News. Also I listen to the daily news, to what is happening, like with the Rohingya issues according to the news. Sometimes when I listen to Karen people, when they have interviewed someone, I listen to the interviews about the political situation. Another thing is that I can compare with the situation what is happening now in refugee camps and what I see in reality. So, I can say that now it is not better yet. [Before return] the political situation should be true and our leaders… We can see it in the news, last week I listened to one of our leaders. That leader he talked about – the leader is also part of the NCA [‘Nationwide’ Ceasefire Agreement] – he said that the way that they are doing [the process] now, he can see that it’s not really peace and not really like the government and the military want to get the real peace. Actually they want them [ethnic armed groups] to surrender. So, I don’t believe in that [the peace process] at all. Currently, I don’t [consider returning]. Looking at the political situation, even though I want all Karen people to return to their homeland, according to what I know, what they are feeling, I don’t dare to return. Because we can see clearly what [is under] the surface, what is happening, going on in Burma. So I can’t believe them [the government and military]. Thousands and thousands, not only Karen people, also [other] ethnic people, we can see now the Rohingya issue also, there are many conflicts happening in Burma and they cannot solve them even a little bit. So, I don’t want the Karen people [to return], I think it is not the right situation to return back yet. I don’t understand how they could return [now]. Some people think that there is already peace and the political situation is already peaceful in Burma. So they just want to pressure the refugees and IDPs to return back to their homeland. I would like to say to the international community, and to the ones who used to support refugees also, I want them to see the real situation. I want them to see the real situation. For us, we are staying close to our community so we know more, because we understand, but they are far so they don’t see the real situation, so they stopped [support]. But I want them to really see the real situation and to continue supporting the IDPs and refugee people. At the same time, I want to say [they should] try to cooperate more with monitoring and the peace process in Burma. I want them to see what is going on with the peace process, and [I want them to] also continue supporting the refugees. I don’t want [mean] to say stop the peace process, [but] continue supporting here. At the same time, they can support us, and they can try to make the situation [better] and real peace happen quickly. Lay Lit walking in the pathways of Ei Tu Hta IDP camp in KNU 5th Brigade. To get real peace, I believe that the international community, they have to strongly to cooperate and to participate. Yes, let’s say for example, if they can stop selling weapons to the military. If they stop selling weapons to the military I think that is one way to support and to get peace. I know the international community are very concerned about Burma’s peace process. Let’s say for example what is happening with the Rohingya issue, because what happened with the international community, including the UNHCR, because they are trying to be involved. We can say that even something can change. In the same way also, to get all real peace, I think they can do something. I mean they have to support, they have to monitor, to take care where, when and how their support is going. Maybe, [if you give] national [government] support, people will use the support in another way. They just support many things with ‘peace’. If people write something about peace, they support a lot. But the peace [they are supporting] is not really peace. It just takes up time and costs a lot of money, but does [achieves] nothing. [Alongside] this situation, the people have to run and flee and stay in very difficult [conditions]. It’s very difficult but they don’t see that. If I was the supporter maybe I would change my [strategy], donors [should be] very careful. We can say that our organization also have, I just heard about that, I’m not sure, in the past we got support from [one organization], but I heard that also they are trying to move some support to Burma. I heard about it, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it depends on them. Our organization is supported currently by TBC also. But if we compare with last year, between 2016 and 2017, support was reduced by 5%, like that. In the coming years also, maybe they will cut more. It also depends on our plan or something. I feel like, when the support goes inside, if we see that the peace process has some good news, if I hear that the political situation is getting better and some communities are developing, it is very successful, then I will feel good. But now the support is going inside Burma while the political situation is terrible, so then I feel like even if they support, there is no benefit. I just feel like that is not useful, that is the way to support the dictatorship. For me, I just want to say that because I have seen, we can say that we get the real information from our people. We travel around and between our people we know the situation, what are the basic community needs. We really know that. So I want them check back carefully, I want them to support others but the support should not be in a very bad way. If they support, [it should be] something [which can] become useful for the country. But now we cannot say that it is useful, maybe some of them also will know and will see this kind of situation, we can see like with the Rohingya issue or something they can see that nothing is changing yet. They can already see this [Rohingya] situation. I hope that they can guess, if it is real peace or not in the country. If they cannot see this situation and they just pressure the refugees and IDPs, maybe I have no idea what to say. For the past two years, Lay Lit has worked as the Secretary of the KSNG. All the central committee members are non-paid volunteers, and the young leaders often need to look for alternative ways to support themselves. Actually, personally I don’t really have [any] support that people give me. But some of my friends [in third countries], if I need help they will support me. Not much, just [enough] to support me. As we are friends, we can share our problems and they support me, visit me or something. I have my best friend who is very kind, who understands my situation. I can say that if I tell very clearly about what I need, he helps with just a little bit of pocket money, like 500 [baht] [USD 16] or something like that. When I say I will need more money to [be able to] eat, if my friend didn’t help me maybe I couldn’t continue with my basic needs. Every time I have to buy soup or shower [hygiene] materials, and everything. So yes, I may need sometimes the money that my friend supports me [with]. I don’t have any other special way to get some income. My family also cannot support me with anything. I feel like now, if I compare myself with the past, since I studied at school and came to the refugee camp, until now, we can say that in [according to] our belief, this is a lesson for us. When I lived in the refugee camp, sometimes I had a good relationship with women, even if not my relatives, they supported me. I worked for them and they just helped me a little bit so I had enough. Until now also with my friend, we studied together in the past, if I need help I can ask a little bit. If not, maybe I’d have no idea how to get income. For the Mae Tao Clinic, if we are feeling sick, we can go anytime for the medicine, they can give any time. But not any support for the food, they will only try to cure our disease. We can go anytime. I feel like they also very beneficial. If we would not have Mae Tao Clinic, I think it would not be easy [for us]. For my future, I cannot see, but the thing that I want to say is that I feel like now I just want to stay in a place where I have safety. I don’t have to be rich or to have a lot, just enough for me. I just want to live in my future, I want to live in a place that is safe for me. And I just want to live a normal life, and I want to help other people as much as I can. Since 2016 and 2017, I have been staying with KSNG. Because I’m still responsible to work with them, so I stay with them. Coming December [2017], we will have [KSNG] election, so maybe I will not [run for] election anymore. Maybe I will start doing another thing. Now I am thinking I am going to do something, I already started planning. Because I can see that there are many needs in our community. If we compare, like health issues and education and politics also, if we go around our community we see that there are very many problems that they are facing. But we cannot do it all by ourselves, everyone doing by themselves. Also, even if I quit the organization [KSNG], it means I will not quit my people. I will still do work, like according to how General Nerdah Mya said, in this kind of situation, we cannot wait only for what our leaders will do for us. We also, as we can, we have to do by ourselves for our community and for our people. Now I am trying to start writing a proposal, but I’m not sure if it will be a success, but I believe in it. I am going to do something like fundraising, I plan to do fundraising, by selling Karen traditional materials. Then after, if I get profit from that I want to give school materials to schools, because I have contact with some teachers. They usually ask me for help, to help with school materials like projectors, or printers, many things are needed in our schools, but I cannot help with all. So, I will help them as much I can. So maybe in 2018, I will work on this project. I’m really interested in doing that, because I’m thinking that if I don’t, this cannot work [will not happen]. Also, if we have community people who have the ability [to weave], who have the skill, but they cannot have opportunity to spread that skill, it is not useful for them if they do not apply that skill. First of all, the people who weaving to make Karen shirts, if they do that for me then also they will have income for their family. Also, after we get profit, I will send [materials] to the schools, I will give the profit to the schools, I think that they will benefit from us. I think that it is not really big, but I will support as I can. I don’t think that this will help a lot, it’s small, but it will support them. I am really interested in doing this. This also interests me because I used to, in my life when I used to stay in the [refugee] camp, I used to do this kind of thing, doing some small fundraising. Sometimes, when I lived in the camp, I tried to send something [school materials] for my teachers when they asked me. I’m interested in doing this kind of thing, but I will not forget to listen to the news, to know what is happening in my country, concerning the political issues. Even if I do this kind of thing, I will always be concerned about this [political] situation. Young women in a Karen family practicing their weaving skills. For me, actually for the weaving I can do by myself as well. Because when I studied in the camp I could do it. But I couldn’t make a lot, something like Karen shirts. It means I can do a little bit as much as I can, but not very fluently. I can start and I can weave very simple [designs] and make simple flowers. I got the idea because I started to know [about this] when I was working with KSNG. [When] I was doing this kind of [community] work, I [came to] know that if you sell you will have a little bit more profit. I even [think about] this when I go to the camps. I see some women there, they have the ability for this [weaving]. I just watch when they are weaving and I try to ask them more about this and I see that they are interested [in this project]. If I do this kind of thing, it will be done, so I decided to do something. But I want to make this sustainable, because as I said, sometimes when the donors give to the schools, for example if they want give them something like school materials in the camps. Just one time, if the donors don’t come back, they [the schools] cannot get [materials] more times. So maybe if we have a sustainable project we can run year by year, at least in one year two times or one time we can give to the schools. For example, if I ask for 60,000 [baht] [USD 1,915] from my friends as a donation, maybe they will give it to me but if I go and buy projectors or computers it [the money] will be gone again. If I can make some profit then I can give, for one year, at least the profit can be like 30,000 [baht] or something like that, so I can give two times or one time. If an expensive thing, maybe I can give one time, and pens or pencils maybe we can give two times. Actually, that place [Mae Pa] is not safe for us [KSNG], because we are currently using the —1 card [NOTE: Removed the names of the organizations providing the cards], we are using that card. One time, when the police tried to catch the people I contacted them with phone, ‘This card is it safe for us or not?’ They cannot give us any guarantee. They just tell us not to go out a lot. I don’t feel like it is really safe. I’m not sure about the —2 card. I haven’t asked them yet, because we also have the —2 card. Maybe I will ask them soon, ‘Can we use this card next year?’ I’m sure that for —1 we cannot use [after finishing work with KSNG]. If we cannot use —2 card, maybe according to the Thai rules, then maybe we cannot stay [in Thailand] anymore. That is a thing I want to say is also included in challenges or worries. If I cannot use the —1 card or the —-2 card, we are worried for the thing [weaving project] that I plan to do also. Because for the thing I plan to do, sometimes I will have to travel so I think it will be a problem, a challenge for me. If we get a passport, it’s also not easy. Although we can do it [make a passport], it will cost a lot, each month it will cost a lot. Because we do not work with anything special to get salary, so it [salary] cannot be very good. Sometimes, as we are youth, maybe if we try to find a way to work in the city, maybe for us personally, we have no worry to live, but we already have experience to work in the community. Also the more we go [travel], the more we see problems, the more we are interested in not being separated from our community. We have to do something or work on something [for our community]. If you have enough money, our passport we can use legally. It depends on money. I went back to my village one time [since the last interview]. My mom was sick, so I wanted go back to her and give her some medicine and some snacks [food]. I just visited her, just for two or three days and then I came back. Now she is getting better, but she is old, she cannot travel, sometimes she can get diseases. Especially she gets tired, she doesn’t want to eat anything. I [also] visited Nu Poe, Umpiem… I have been to Nu Poe, Umpiem, Mae Ra Moe [Mae Ra Ma Luang], Mae La Oon. Just those places [refugee camps]. When I was there this time, I could see the situation, like with education [changing]; I could see the schools, some of the schools, they had to break them up, had to combine like one school with another school. Let’s say for example in Ei Tu Hta [IDP camp] also, when I went there first, they had like a high school, there was a high school. When I came the last time, the school was just only until 10th grade. So that is changing. Let’s talk about like the health issue; at first when I went to Mae Ra Moe and Mae La Oon, and Mae La [camps] also, I did not hear that they had a health problem, but when I came last time, they had a big health problem [H1N1 epidemic], that was so dangerous. For training, I did not get any special training. I just went especially for the meetings [to participate]. For giving training, I’m trying to plan for this month, I’m going to give report proposal training in Nu Poe, Umpiem and Mae La. I have to give [training] to them. I’m not finished [with KSNG] yet. Actually, last month I went and tried to give them [training] but they were not free so I had to come back. I want to make sure of one thing, concerning the peace process. I really want the world and international community to see the real situation in Burma; there is no peace yet. So, maybe if they know about this kind of situation maybe something will change, for the refugees also, and they can get what they want. If we talk about the political situation, I want the international community and the donors [to understand] what is happening with the peace process and what is the reality in the country. If they don’t see and accept our situation, I think if they continue supporting in Burma, things will go wrong. Because the people [military] don’t want to give back our freedom to us. I believe that the international community can help us. I don’t believe only ethnic [people] and only our leaders can do this for us [by themselves]. Because we have been waiting for too long. And also we have seen our people are just facing the same thing again. So I really want the people to make sure for this [peace] process. READ LAY LIT’S INTERVIEW FOCUSING ON THE REFUGEE SITUATION (IN JUNE 2017) READ ABOUT BURMA LINK’S “KEEP SUPPORTING” CAMPAIGN (SEPTEMBER 2017) Photo: Burma LinkPART 4: CURRENT SITUATION (OCTOBER 2017)
Recent changes: “They [refugees] are facing more worrying, worrying for their life”
Working in the camps: “If we look back at the schools and students in the camps also, they feel depressed”
Political situation and the return process: “Without the current political situation changing, without real peace, I don’t think they can return”
Not time to return: “I want them to really see the real situation and to continue supporting the IDPs and refugee people”
Supporting real peace: “If I was the [peace] supporter maybe I would change my [strategy]”
Shifting funds to Burma: “Now the support is going inside Burma while the political situation is terrible”
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Covering for her basic needs: “My family also cannot support me with anything”
Future plan: “As we can, we have to do by ourselves for our community and for our people”
Planning for income generation in displaced communities: “If we have a sustainable project we can run year by year, at least in one year two times or one time we can give to the schools”
Documentation and travel: “The more we go [travel], the more we see problems, the more we are interested in not being separated from our community”
Recent travels to native village and to refugee camps: “I could see the situation, like with education [changing]”
Message to the international community: “I really want the world and international community to see the real situation in Burma”
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