Ariana Zarleen / Burma Link
Mahn Robert Ba Zan is a former Karen freedom fighter and an advisor to the Karen Communities of Minnesota. He served in the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) for more than 30 years, following in the footsteps of his father Mahn Ba Zan, the first commander of the Karen National Defence Organisation (KNDO) and a former President of the Karen National Union (KNU). In 2000, Mahn Robert Ba Zan resettled to the United States of America with his family, changing his revolutionary tactics towards raising awareness and educating the Karen and other ethnics. In this interview, Mahn Robert Ba Zan talks about the ceasefire and car permits, ethnic unity, and how the international community can help the Karen in their quest for genuine peace and freedom.
There is no political solution, only ceasefire
According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, the government is only changing at a surface level in order to further its own political and military gains. The Karen have not benefited from the historical ceasefire that the KNU signed in January 2012.
There is no political solution, only ceasefire. During the ceasefire, they
[Burmese military] have been building a stronghold in Karen areas. They fill up all their ammunitions, and they build their bunkers with concrete. They are building very stronghold bunkers. So, on one side there is the ceasefire, but other side is preparing for war.
In some areas such as in Kachin, Shan, and Palaung they [Burmese military] still fight. Now they stopped fighting Karen, but soon they will start again. They already started fighting the DKBA [Democratic Karen Benevolent Army – previously known as Democratic Karen Buddhist Army].
There is no political solution now. There is no Karen State. Ceasefire [for the Burmese military] is to stop fighting so that they can build up military posts and to grab Karen land. So there is no benefit for the Karen people.
They know there is a great gold vein in Karen land, the biggest gold vein in the world. They will never withdraw from Karen land. That is one thing. They want Karen leaders to join with them. They want business in Burma, business in Kachinland. There are a lot of natural resources in Kachinland, Shan land, Palaung land and Karen land, Arakan land. In Burman areas, there is nothing. So they made the military powerful. They want to monopolize all ethnics politically and economically.
Unless they withdraw from our Karen land, unless they take their bombs from Karen land, there will be war forever.
Ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army
All ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army. And then if the Burmese fight, we fight them together. Only one solution, and one common headquarter for the Federal Army.
My father formed the united front. He was the founder of NDF [National Democratic Front]. His dream was that we will win the war with a united front. Every ethnic as one front and one command to fight.
At the time NDF was very good and very strong. They had northern front, eastern front, and southern front. The enemy was scared. They were scared so they wanted to split NDF.
The Burmese military has many divisions. But we don’t mind. We have a lot of ethnic groups. We know the places and we know the terrain. They don’t know. So we can fight and win revolution with united front.
This is our motto: ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’. The government is our common enemy, so we are friends.
Now the UNFC [United Nationalities Federal Council] is strong. The enemy is scared of the UNFC, so they want to split KNU from UNFC. Karen people don’t accept that KNU temporarily suspended their membership from the UNFC. Me too, I don’t agree. We don’t want to get out of the UNFC.
But UNFC is still strong. The problem is only temporary. Our permanent goal is to win the war with a united front. That’s our goal.
We can’t fight alone. We fight together.
One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag
Mahn Robert Ba Zan explains how the Burmese military has successfully used bribes to divide the resistance movement. As the ethnic armies are more aware of government military tactics, the Burmese have recently bribed them with car permits instead of money.
The Burmese military is very cunning. They know the military tactics of Sun Tzu, the Chinese military strategy. They know very well about Sun Tzu tactics.
They are scared, so they divide, divide, and divide. They have a strategic command, they know everything. They know that some leaders want money, some like alcohol, some like women. So they split the leadership. They split the Karen revolution.
Now they bribe Karen political leadership with car permits. They give only car permits, no money. The permits were given to the Karen political leadership, to the ones who are willing to sign the ceasefire. Even now inside UNFC, they split KNU.
According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, money is also the reason why some Karen soldiers joined the BGF [Border Guard Force] under Burmese military command.
It’s because of money, giving, giving. We can’t give money. The Burmese military persuade Karen soldiers with money.
But this is only temporary. It is not ideological. One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag. All Karen groups. Even in BGF, Border Guard Force, and many Karen soldiers will join Karen revolution. One day, all Karen together.
They are cheating the world
To help the ethnic struggle, international community should provide education and health to the Karen people, Mahn Robert Ba Zan says.
We want education, education is key. And we need medicine for Karen people. Sometimes enemy attacks and the people need food. Now international donors have stopped helping the refugees, they even reduced rations to half. So the people need help.
There is still fighting and there are still refugees.
Now the international community changed their front to Rangoon. Because of enemy tactics. They [the Burmese government] say – We made a ceasefire with Karen! No need for refugees there! So, international community is going to Rangoon and they have their projects in Burma, not on the border.
They should support across the border, unless there is peace. If we don’t have peace in Burma, don’t support! Don’t go to Burma!
They are cheating now, they are cheating the world. If they want real peace – Stop fighting in Kachin, Shan and Palaung land!
They have spies, to split KNU
Mahn Robert Ba Zan served in the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) as a company commander, captain, column commander, Deputy Battalion commander and tactical commander for 32 years.
Mahn Robert Ba Zan in KNLA uniform (Photo: https://www.facebook.com/mrobertzan)
I was with the KNLA from 1964 to 1997. First I joined KNLA at Irrawaddy Delta. 1964 to 1969, and then I came to east Kawthoolei.
At the time my father was the chairman of KNU [Karen National Union]. Before General Bo Mya, my father Mahn Ba Zan was the KNU President.
MESSAGE TO THE WORLD
We want real peace in Burma. We want democracy. We want self-determination. We want equality. We want justice. Please support our people, not the government.
They are not elected people. They are not legitimate government.
Don’t invest without peace in Burma. If you invest in Burma, it’s just like you support the dictator, the fascists, the military.
– Mahn Robert Ba Zan
Before DKBA split happened, I lived in Manerplaw. At DAB [Democratic Alliance of Burma] headquarters, I was the column commander. Then in 1993, I was assigned to the 4th Brigade. We formed the 12th battalion there.
Then in 1995, DKBA and Karen groups split. From my point of view, DKBA happened because there was religious inequality. At the time, inside KNU majority were Christian. Central committee of the KNU has 45 people, and inside the committee there were only two or three Buddhist Karen. So enemy could divide. Aaaw KNU do not really mobilize Buddhists! They would say like this.
It was enemy tactics. They used pastors, they used monks. They used teachers. They also used the Burmese student army. They have spies, to split KNU into two three parts like this.
If we can’t organize the people, we can’t win the war
After (DKBA) split, I changed my strategy. I started organizing the Karen people. In non-violence, only organizing and raising Karen awareness.
We have alternative wings. Not only armed struggle but also other methods to win our goal – organize, raise awareness, international support. We should raise our awareness.
We want people’s support. If we can’t organize the people, we can’t win the war. So non-violence organizations should organize the people to partake, to support our revolution. So I changed the strategy to only educate the people and serve the people.
In 2000, I went to the US with my family. I applied for UNHCR status in Bangkok. I was recognized as a refugee and I chose the US. Now I live in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Before I got citizenship, I stayed there and worked. Then I could sponsor my friends and my relatives.
Mahn Robert Ba Zan with friends in Washington DC. (Photo: https://www.facebook.com/mrobertzan)
Mahn Robert Ba Zan says that his first priority in the US was to keep the Karen language and culture alive.
Every Saturday and Sunday, they have a Karen literature class for youth. We are scared that our language will disappear. Even my grandkids, they speak English in the house. They don’t speak Karen. So I say – Hey! Don’t speak English at home, speak Karen! And then – Go to school! On Saturdays, they have a three hour Karen language class, and also Karen culture and Don dance.
Now only in Minnesota there are about 8,000 Karen. There are Karen in 45 states. Total number is maybe over 40,000 Karen in the US now.
I never forget my fallen comrades
In 2008 I got citizenship and I came back here. Every year I come back.
Since 2008, Mahn Robert Ba Zan has been coming back each year to teach students and train soldiers from various ethnic armies.
Now I stay at KNDO [Karen National Defense Organization] headquarters. I am conducting community organizing training for Karen students. Every year I’ve been teaching. Some places for military, now for community organizing. In my training, I’ve helped Arakan army from north, Arakan army from south, KNLA, KNDO, DKBA. They know that we have to win the Burmese government by united front. I train them.
I served 32 years in Karen Army. And then many many soldiers were killed in action. I never forget my fallen comrades. So I come back every year.
I promised them: I will serve my people until my last breath.
We want real peace. We don’t want to solve the problem with fighting. We want to solve the problem on the table. But now, they are only signing agreements, they don’t follow through with them. The Burmese military only promise, promise, promise, on the paper. Then they break the promise every time.
The Burmese military have a grand strategy. That strategy is to wipe out all Karen. They want Burmanization, and no other religions, only Burman and Buddhists. Their grand strategy to wipe out all ethnics.
If you love our people, don’t invest anything in Burma without real peace.
This story is based on Burma Link’s interview with Mahn Robert Ba Zan at the KNLA headquarters in October 2014.
NOTE: Mahn stands for ‘Mister’ in Pwo Karen. There are two major ethnic Karen groups in Burma; Sgaw Karen and Pwo Karen. Robert Ba Zan is Pwo Karen so his title is Mahn.
According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, the government is only changing at a surface level in order to further its own political and military gains. The Karen have not benefited from the historical ceasefire that the KNU signed in January 2012.
There is no political solution, only ceasefire. During the ceasefire, they
In some areas such as in Kachin, Shan, and Palaung they [Burmese military] still fight. Now they stopped fighting Karen, but soon they will start again. They already started fighting the DKBA [Democratic Karen Benevolent Army – previously known as Democratic Karen Buddhist Army].
There is no political solution now. There is no Karen State. Ceasefire [for the Burmese military] is to stop fighting so that they can build up military posts and to grab Karen land. So there is no benefit for the Karen people.
They know there is a great gold vein in Karen land, the biggest gold vein in the world. They will never withdraw from Karen land. That is one thing. They want Karen leaders to join with them. They want business in Burma, business in Kachinland. There are a lot of natural resources in Kachinland, Shan land, Palaung land and Karen land, Arakan land. In Burman areas, there is nothing. So they made the military powerful. They want to monopolize all ethnics politically and economically.
Unless they withdraw from our Karen land, unless they take their bombs from Karen land, there will be war forever.
Ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army
All ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army. And then if the Burmese fight, we fight them together. Only one solution, and one common headquarter for the Federal Army.
My father formed the united front. He was the founder of NDF [National Democratic Front]. His dream was that we will win the war with a united front. Every ethnic as one front and one command to fight.
At the time NDF was very good and very strong. They had northern front, eastern front, and southern front. The enemy was scared. They were scared so they wanted to split NDF.
The Burmese military has many divisions. But we don’t mind. We have a lot of ethnic groups. We know the places and we know the terrain. They don’t know. So we can fight and win revolution with united front.
This is our motto: ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’. The government is our common enemy, so we are friends.
Now the UNFC [United Nationalities Federal Council] is strong. The enemy is scared of the UNFC, so they want to split KNU from UNFC. Karen people don’t accept that KNU temporarily suspended their membership from the UNFC. Me too, I don’t agree. We don’t want to get out of the UNFC.
But UNFC is still strong. The problem is only temporary. Our permanent goal is to win the war with a united front. That’s our goal.
We can’t fight alone. We fight together.
One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag
Mahn Robert Ba Zan explains how the Burmese military has successfully used bribes to divide the resistance movement. As the ethnic armies are more aware of government military tactics, the Burmese have recently bribed them with car permits instead of money.
The Burmese military is very cunning. They know the military tactics of Sun Tzu, the Chinese military strategy. They know very well about Sun Tzu tactics.
They are scared, so they divide, divide, and divide. They have a strategic command, they know everything. They know that some leaders want money, some like alcohol, some like women. So they split the leadership. They split the Karen revolution.
Now they bribe Karen political leadership with car permits. They give only car permits, no money. The permits were given to the Karen political leadership, to the ones who are willing to sign the ceasefire. Even now inside UNFC, they split KNU.
According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, money is also the reason why some Karen soldiers joined the BGF [Border Guard Force] under Burmese military command.
It’s because of money, giving, giving. We can’t give money. The Burmese military persuade Karen soldiers with money.
But this is only temporary. It is not ideological. One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag. All Karen groups. Even in BGF, Border Guard Force, and many Karen soldiers will join Karen revolution. One day, all Karen together.
They are cheating the world
To help the ethnic struggle, international community should provide education and health to the Karen people, Mahn Robert Ba Zan says.
We want education, education is key. And we need medicine for Karen people. Sometimes enemy attacks and the people need food. Now international donors have stopped helping the refugees, they even reduced rations to half. So the people need help.
There is still fighting and there are still refugees.
Now the international community changed their front to Rangoon. Because of enemy tactics. They [the Burmese government] say – We made a ceasefire with Karen! No need for refugees there! So, international community is going to Rangoon and they have their projects in Burma, not on the border.
They should support across the border, unless there is peace. If we don’t have peace in Burma, don’t support! Don’t go to Burma!
They are cheating now, they are cheating the world. If they want real peace – Stop fighting in Kachin, Shan and Palaung land!
They have spies, to split KNU
Mahn Robert Ba Zan served in the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) as a company commander, captain, column commander, Deputy Battalion commander and tactical commander for 32 years.
Mahn Robert Ba Zan in KNLA uniform (Photo: https://www.facebook.com/mrobertzan)
I was with the KNLA from 1964 to 1997. First I joined KNLA at Irrawaddy Delta. 1964 to 1969, and then I came to east Kawthoolei.
At the time my father was the chairman of KNU [Karen National Union]. Before General Bo Mya, my father Mahn Ba Zan was the KNU President.
|
MESSAGE TO THE WORLD |
|---|
|
We want real peace in Burma. We want democracy. We want self-determination. We want equality. We want justice. Please support our people, not the government. They are not elected people. They are not legitimate government. Don’t invest without peace in Burma. If you invest in Burma, it’s just like you support the dictator, the fascists, the military. |
| – Mahn Robert Ba Zan |
Before DKBA split happened, I lived in Manerplaw. At DAB [Democratic Alliance of Burma] headquarters, I was the column commander. Then in 1993, I was assigned to the 4th Brigade. We formed the 12th battalion there.
Then in 1995, DKBA and Karen groups split. From my point of view, DKBA happened because there was religious inequality. At the time, inside KNU majority were Christian. Central committee of the KNU has 45 people, and inside the committee there were only two or three Buddhist Karen. So enemy could divide. Aaaw KNU do not really mobilize Buddhists! They would say like this.
It was enemy tactics. They used pastors, they used monks. They used teachers. They also used the Burmese student army. They have spies, to split KNU into two three parts like this.
If we can’t organize the people, we can’t win the war
After (DKBA) split, I changed my strategy. I started organizing the Karen people. In non-violence, only organizing and raising Karen awareness.
We have alternative wings. Not only armed struggle but also other methods to win our goal – organize, raise awareness, international support. We should raise our awareness.
We want people’s support. If we can’t organize the people, we can’t win the war. So non-violence organizations should organize the people to partake, to support our revolution. So I changed the strategy to only educate the people and serve the people.
In 2000, I went to the US with my family. I applied for UNHCR status in Bangkok. I was recognized as a refugee and I chose the US. Now I live in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Before I got citizenship, I stayed there and worked. Then I could sponsor my friends and my relatives.
Mahn Robert Ba Zan with friends in Washington DC. (Photo: https://www.facebook.com/mrobertzan)
Mahn Robert Ba Zan says that his first priority in the US was to keep the Karen language and culture alive.
Every Saturday and Sunday, they have a Karen literature class for youth. We are scared that our language will disappear. Even my grandkids, they speak English in the house. They don’t speak Karen. So I say – Hey! Don’t speak English at home, speak Karen! And then – Go to school! On Saturdays, they have a three hour Karen language class, and also Karen culture and Don dance.
Now only in Minnesota there are about 8,000 Karen. There are Karen in 45 states. Total number is maybe over 40,000 Karen in the US now.
I never forget my fallen comrades
In 2008 I got citizenship and I came back here. Every year I come back.
Since 2008, Mahn Robert Ba Zan has been coming back each year to teach students and train soldiers from various ethnic armies.
Now I stay at KNDO [Karen National Defense Organization] headquarters. I am conducting community organizing training for Karen students. Every year I’ve been teaching. Some places for military, now for community organizing. In my training, I’ve helped Arakan army from north, Arakan army from south, KNLA, KNDO, DKBA. They know that we have to win the Burmese government by united front. I train them.
I served 32 years in Karen Army. And then many many soldiers were killed in action. I never forget my fallen comrades. So I come back every year.
I promised them: I will serve my people until my last breath.
We want real peace. We don’t want to solve the problem with fighting. We want to solve the problem on the table. But now, they are only signing agreements, they don’t follow through with them. The Burmese military only promise, promise, promise, on the paper. Then they break the promise every time.
The Burmese military have a grand strategy. That strategy is to wipe out all Karen. They want Burmanization, and no other religions, only Burman and Buddhists. Their grand strategy to wipe out all ethnics.
If you love our people, don’t invest anything in Burma without real peace.
This story is based on Burma Link’s interview with Mahn Robert Ba Zan at the KNLA headquarters in October 2014.
NOTE: Mahn stands for ‘Mister’ in Pwo Karen. There are two major ethnic Karen groups in Burma; Sgaw Karen and Pwo Karen. Robert Ba Zan is Pwo Karen so his title is Mahn.
