‘They Reduced the Support for the Refugee Camps … That Is Why the ‘Voluntary’ Return Is Happening’: Lay Lit, Secretary of KSNG

[for refugees] is less, so they’ve have to cut down everything. If we compare with the past, I feel like personally since 2013 the support and everything in the camp is like ‘a lot of fish but no water.’ I feel like that. In the past it is very good, there was a lot of support, also in the Karen New Year they could celebrate, a lot of people. Now there is much less support, so the people try to find their way out. Only some people learned that if they have a relationship with the people in Thailand, like Thai villages, they can go and work but some people do not have that and they have to worry for their life. When we compare the past and now, very different situation, even education, everything is different. Teachers also they do not get salary much now. We can say that they get pocket money not salary.

For the camp only some NGOs like Right to Play and ADRA they stay and support. They still support but not enough, we can say that not like in the past. Like for the rations and also for all the support from TBC (The Border Consortium) — everything is reduced. They reduce rations every day [all the time]. That is why there are a lot of problems. I mean international community who have already supported the refugees in the past, like they supported a lot in the camp, but because they reduced their support, refugees go back. Like some NGOs now they support in Burma and support some other organizations in Burma. But they reduced the support for the refugee camps … that is why the “voluntary” return is happening. Also, I want to say that the UNHCR have to make sure… what I have learned in the school is that the UNHCR is very human and very formal.

I have known in the past that the UNHCR is the one who stands for the refugees 100%, but now that I grew up and started working here, I feel like they do not stand 100%.

 

Talking about repatriation in the camps: “[I thought] we have to go back, so I don’t want to study anymore”

I have noticed it [repatriation talks] started a long time ago. I heard in the past just rumors — not started [repatriation] yet, ‘oh people will go and send back the refugees soon.’ This way sometimes when I was studying on grade 9, 10 or 12, if I heard that I didn’t want to read books, [I thought] we have to go back, so I don’t want to study anymore. I felt like that in the past because the camp will close so we just feel like that. The students in the camp also just feel like, ’oh the camp will close or people will go and send us back, so I don’t want to study’ or something like that. I just heard like that but nothing had happened yet. I was just thinking, I just imagined that even if the refugees return, I will do step by step. After I finished post 10 school and teaching two years in the camp, nothing happened yet, no one sent the refugees back, but when I came back to Mae Sot to study and work for 2 more years, then last year in 2016 it happened in practice, we know that people were sent back, they started doing the voluntary return.

There are many rumours in the camp about the situation, especially the big issues are the returning issue and resettlement. Some people who hope to go for resettlement, they are waiting and some people are becoming very hopeless. I work very closely with some women and also they want to go to the 3^rd country for their future, but they cannot go so now they decided to go back to Lay Kay Kaw [resettlement site in the Karen State]. But they are very strong people. Currently because there are many changing situations, so I feel like people have very much lost their way, and everyone is trying to think their way out and how to do and how to go. Very complicated. A lot of the people [are leaving], we can say that houses are also a little bit less because some people already went back.

 

The UNHCR repatriation roadmap: “I don’t want them [UNHCR] to continue doing voluntary returning, they should do it when it’s meaningful”

I started to know [about repatriation] when working here, when we work here at KSNG. When I started working, during my internship year, that was my first time and I went to a KCBO [Karen CBO] meeting. At this event, the main UNHCR person in Mae Sot and also in Burma was invited at the KCBO meeting, and that was the first time I knew that people are preparing to send back the refugees. For me I didn’t understand [why]. I didn’t understand, I started knowing that they discuss if refugees go, they will give materials — you have to choose one like a mosquito net, phone, that is what I didn’t understand. Very crazy for me.

UNHCR also explained about their roadmap, they explained about that. When I attended the meeting, I felt like the UNHCR explained that they will do voluntary return, and if refugees go back they have to go and talk and give their name [to the UNHCR], the UNHCR asked the people in the camp. They mean that the refugees have to go and knock their door. For me I asked a question, ‘in my experience, we live in the camp and most refugees are not used to talking with foreigners and they don’t know how to go and ask the [UNHCR] people, so how will you do about that?’ The UNHCR [staff member] from Burma she answered me, a little bit angry, she said that ‘yeah we already gave many trainings in the refugee camp about how you can go and ask and we see that refugees are very active, and since then they dare to go and ask.’ I felt like her answer was a little bit [too] strong so I didn’t want to continue and I just stayed silent.

For their roadmap and when they talk about refugee repatriation, one difference I have seen is that they talk about how KCBOs are also included, but then the KCBO leaders say they do not know anything about that.

They [UNHCR] just put the name of KCBO, they [UNHCR] do like that. And KCBOs also not agreeing with that and I feel like in their work they [UNHCR] have no transparency. That is when I started knowing… But for me, also I was not interested in this topic because I cannot agree with this repatriation. If people talk about it I very much disagree but in practice we can see that they are already going back, sent back. But there is no transparency, I feel just like that. Also, now the KNU they just they founded their committee about returning issue, but some leaders want to go slowly and think carefully, and some of them want to rush.

For me, sometimes in the meeting [with the UNHCR] even though we want to talk but we do not have the time and sometimes we have lots of questions but we do not have [they don’t give] time. Only people speak and speak. For me, I went to join the meeting one time and I think that if we talk about that, the UNHCR do not agree, for me I want to ask them not to do repatriation. I mean I don’t want them to do like ‘voluntary repatriation,’ they can do real returning, very meaningful, they can do in that way. Now they already started voluntary repatriation and they set up the [VolRep] offices in the camps. If we talk about that maybe it’s not easy, and also they [UNHCR] don’t want to [talk]. One thing is they made a presentation in the stakeholder meeting in Mae La camp, they presented about how they have done many things like they went and discussed with the government about landmines and also there are no more landmines, they talked about that. But there are still landmines, even though they say that ‘no more landmines and we already went and discussed’ but in reality they have many. I don’t want them [UNHCR] to continue doing voluntary returning, they should do it when it’s meaningful.

 

Not time to return: “if you want to send back the refugees to go back, you have to make sure that refugees can go back”

I can say that for me if I think about that [repatriation], I feel very tired, because if we return there is nothing there [in Burma] and the government does not talk about that and does not focus on that issue. So there is no plan, and they just know only their side for the negotiation. We [refugees] do not know exactly what is happening, it is not very good. Our return is not the same way like in other countries. We have seen in some wars, some people, they had become refugees and when they came back to their homeland, it was very organized and they got their country, they were free to rule themselves. But our Karen and other ethnic who live in the refugee camps, return is something not very… we can say that not very meaningful, not very organized. I think that is the most important thing, we can say that the people who organized this also the people who support the refugees, international [actors], I think they should make sure of this. Actually ‘voluntary return’ I had never heard of it in my life. When they do voluntary return, I think no need to do that voluntary return, but you can give the people in the camp information and other side can continue in a political way and try to negotiate with the government about this. I think if everything is okay, I think they can send [refugees] back.

If they want all refugees to go back then I think no need to do voluntary return just make sure everything in the country [is okay] and they can return and nothing bad will happen when the people return.

I can see that for example, before the refugee [crisis] was happening because of the civil war, but we can say that now there is still civil war and they do not promote opportunity and they do not talk about the refugees. Also still in the country there are many situations that are complicated [not solved]; economy, education, everything. That is why I do not agree yet for refugees to return. Before the refugees came here because of the civil war, so if you want to send the refugees to go back, you have to make sure that refugees can go back [safely], that is the main thing. For example, now we can say that according to our KSNG position paper, and also the main KNU position statement and KRC statement, they wrote down more than ten points about how we will be ready at the time if refugees go back. Let me give example like if landmines are taken out then the return issue can happen. For example, if they [also] accept the refugee education and recognize refugee education then the return issue can happen. They have a statement like that but now when I compare [with the current situation], none of the points on the statements are ready. That is why I think it is very impossible, and I very much disagree.

Also, I think now they are just opening the way like refugees can go back and check, they just allowed [look and see visits], but in reality you cannot go back. If you come back to Thai side they will check you or something, ask where are you going, on Burma side also they can check. That is why we disagree.

 

What should be done: “For me the most important one is that they have to recognize our education”

For me the most important one is that they have to recognize our education, so we can start with the education that we have, and also opportunity that we can do our personal way to survive. That is the first thing, education. For example, if you have education you can set up a small shop. For example, if you have computer skills, if you want to open like a computer basic course or something they will not allow. So if you can do that, you can continue for your survival also other people and other children will get more skills. We could do that but we cannot use our skills if they do not recognize our education, so we cannot do anything, just go back and sleep and in the morning go to the farm and come back. Some people will survive in many ways, some are working and some are following the education way — they should give opportunity for them. Because in the past, like our relatives they had their farm and they were working on their farm, but for us we can follow the educational path. But we need people to recognise our education.

I think the government and KNU have to negotiate first because the refugee people, our Karen people, we especially rely on the KNU, and also other some ethnic rely on the KNU and also the UNHCR, we rely on them. That is why they should promote enough information for the refugees like can they go back or not. In my opinion, they should try to find resources and give information to the camp, and they have to make sure what is happening, still happening in the country, and will the government recognise the refugee education. I think they [UNHCR] can talk to the government and they can do advocacy about that [recognizing refugee education]. They can do that because they are a big player, and they can ask the government to recognize the refugee education. After that there are many other things [to solve], like still have landmines, still civil war. If they know that everything is okay then they can start and have the refugees go back to their country.

I feel like when refugees return to their homeland they should promote some opportunity [for refugees]. They should give back what they took before refugees left, like some people they lost a lot of farms, the government took their farm. If we say about that, they just look back to the constitution again and they just show ‘here, the constitution is like this, if the people do not live there, the land belongs to the government.’ They should give back the land. Many people lost their land in every camp, that is what they should consider, the people who go back, they [should be able to] go back where they lived and restart their life as before. I don’t understand why they just build like one house [resettlement site with houses right next to each other], it is not different from living in the refugee camp. Only [houses], no compound, no farm, nowhere to farm.

When we live in our village, we have land, in the morning we go to our farm and come back. If you live in the resettlement site you cannot do anything. You do not have a farm. I think for the survival, very difficult.

Now the main issue is the peace process in Burma and for the refugees the voluntary returning. We need to make sure about everything for the refugee people and ethnic people. We need people and community, international community, to focus on that and support us. They should continue to support refugees in the camps, because according to KRC reports, in the camps they have many problems because of the ration problem. Even the rations are reduced, in addition to other issues, the rations are reduced. The most important thing is, if we talk about the refugees, refugees cannot do anything because they do not stay in their country, they had to come temporarily to another country.

We can say that if people give them they can eat. If people provide them opportunities they can take them. If people do not support them they cannot get anything. That is what the international community and donors and people who are very important like the UNHCR should focus on the refugees, I think. They should do advocacy for refugees, never forget refugees. They used to do for the refugees a lot but [it changed] because of the peace process in Burma. The situation is not safe yet so we still need their help. It is very important.

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Naw Lay Lit Ray Thaw’s story and views are also featured on “Unrecognised Leaders, Tomorrow’s Hope”, a joint documentary by KSNG, Karen Youth Organisation (KYO), and Burma Link. For more information and to view the film, please visit the film’s website.