The International Community Must Stop Funding Gvt’s Attacks on Kachin Civilians: Moon Nay Li, General Secretary of KWAT

[giving] more support to the government, [but] now the government military has not stopped attacking the ethnic people.” Instead of funding the government’s offensives, “they have to give pressure to Burmese government to have real political dialogue in our country,” says Moon Nai Li. “They have to know that (the real) situation and also have to give pressure, not listen only to the government side. But also they have to listen to the ethnic leaders and also the ground, and CBOs and ethnic people.”

 You can start by listening now.

 

Ongoing conflict and displacement

Q: How would you describe the situation in Kachin areas now?

Kachin area is we have to worry for our future, because the fighting is ongoing and also the Burmese government are sending more troops to Kachin area, and also northern Shan State. And also they are bringing weapons and also they already prepare for the big civil war or something. So that’s why all of the people who live in Kachin State area are worried for big war happening in Kachin area. And also human rights violations are ongoing happening, so seriously happening now. So how can we trust on their nationwide ceasefire process? And also negotiations for peace process?

 

Q: How many Kachin do you estimate to be internally displaced now?

Now is almost over 120,000 IDPs, including the China border and towns and also the new IDPs. […] Now is increased, because in that Hpakan area also, seriously the fighting has happened, and then that area, the people from that area also became IDPs, and also in northern Shan State became IDPs, and there are the new IDPs.

 

Q: How do the Kachin people feel about the KIO and the KIA?

Yeah, as a Kachin people, it is long time ago they are facing in civil war happening, and also discrimination in every part like literacy, and also you know, everywhere, we are discriminated by the Burmese government, so that’s why we cannot stand by ourself, so we want really freedom in our area. […] That’s why all of the Kachin people really support KIO, KIA. And KIO, KIA also listen to the Kachin people, what they really want.

 

Displacement, government abuse and impunity

Q: Some of the IDP camps are in the KIO areas and some are in the government controlled areas. How is the situation different in these two areas with the IDPs? Yeah, there is some different situation. Because in the KIO controlled area, it’s very close to China. The supporting [is] also not enough. The KIO also can’t give support enough. You know they have no support for the IDPs. That’s why some IDPs find a job in China. When they are finding a job in China, some dangerous situations [happen] like [they] become nearly trafficked to China, something like that. That kind of situation is happening. And also for the children like twelve years or thirteen years old, the children also have dangerous situation like drug crisis. Because the area is, China side, is very freely using the drugs. So that’s why that IDP children are you know, going to that China side and finding a job and then they have some money, and then they are buying some drugs and they are using the drugs. Also that kind of situation is happening in that border area.

And also in the government controlled area, it’s also not enough food. Actually that government controlled area mostly the international [NGOs] they can access. They can go to those IDP camps but they have not enough food. And also not enough support for the children and schools, you know, school material. Everything is more difficult to, you know, to solve the problem. So mostly, the IDPs are in the compounds of church community, so church community members have to give support to those IDPs. Not directly [get] support from the government.

[…] And also [people] who are staying in IDP camps, are taken, arrested, by the local authority, [those] who are staying in the government controlled area. So a lot of problems. … the IDPs [are] arrested by the soldiers or police or something you know. They accuse you have connection with the KIO or something. They already accused and then arrested. And some [IDPs] are disappearing until now. They are already killed or something.

 

Q: What are the most common human rights violations that you have documented in Kachin areas?

There is, the villagers are arrested by the [Burmese] soldiers, and then the women also have been raped, so that’s why when the troops [are] coming to village all villagers are already fleeing from that village because they [are] afraid of that, and when the troops are coming to village they are shooting guns to the village, and not targeted to the army, Kachin Independence Army, but also targeted to the villagers and Kachin people. And they shelling and also … sometimes they are using their jets or something for bombing. So because of the situation a lot of the women are injured and also some are… that kind of situation is happening. So mostly the villagers are taken, arrested, by the [Burmese] soldiers and local authority. They accused like ‘you are connection with the KIO or KIA’ or something like that, so that kind of, like unlawful association, is also danger to the villagers.

 

Q: Does it look like the Burmese army is still using the Four Cuts strategy?

Yes. Now is in the northern part of Burma, there are some problem townships … also fighting is very seriously happening, and many IDPs are, you know staying around the church compounds and now nobody can give support to those IDPs. There is also currently a difficult situation with the IDPs, there is about 1,000 [newly displaced] IDPs staying in Sumprabum (in KIO control area).

 

Q: In November 2014, the Women’s League of Burma [which KWAT is a member of], published another report on the ongoing use of state-sponsored sexual violence in Burma’s ethnic communities. What is the current situation in Kachin areas?

Current situation also is that kind of sexual violence keeps happening. We cannot find justice for women. No way. We cannot do nothing. […] [The perpretators] mostly are the government soldiers. They already committed that kind of sexual violence when their troops are coming to village. That kind of sexual violence case is happening but we cannot complain on that situation. Nobody can take action on that situation, even though the police they already know who did that.

It is very clear that the military have more power than government. It is very clear. So everything what the military did, like human right violations, sexual violence and all kinds of land confiscation. Everything. Nobody can take action on that. They are already above the constitution.

 

Q: You already mentioned some challenges the people face in the Kachin area right now. What kind of challenges are especially women facing?

The women, they have a lot of challenges because some families are, their husbands are already arrested by the soldiers. At that time the women have to take care of the families. And that kind of situation is also occurring. And also the drugs, because of the drug crisis, the women [are] also affected by that drug crisis. So that’s why now there are like civilian groups [who] are working for the anti-drugs in Kachin area. But the government [does] not like the civilian groups do for anti-drugs. […] [But] the seller is related to the police or authority, [government] soldiers, or that kind of military, they are related to that. The authority. So that’s why it is also a big problem… We cannot do anti-drug in our Kachin area because the distributor is the authority [connected to the government].

 

Displacement and aid

Q: How would you describe right now the situation in the Kachin IDP camps?

The IDP camps, also they are facing many difficult situations, because they have not enough basic needs like food and also medicine. It (medicine) is very important for them, because currently it is already rainy season. In that rainy season some IDP camps are already flooding, and they cannot sleep, they have nowhere to move … and also in rainy season a lot of diseases are coming out, like malaria is a common happening in our Kachin area, so that’s why the medicine is not enough for IDPs, and also the food is not enough for IDPs. It is really difficult, the situation they are facing.

 

Q: In June, local groups providing aid to the Kachin IDPs said they were facing a severe shortage of funding, resulting in ration cuts. How have these funding cuts affected the IDPs?

The effect is there is not enough food. Before they can get like rice, but now is the half of rice support they are already cutting, so that is why they cannot [have] enough for their survival. So it is really dangerous for their future. […] Especially they need basic needs of like food and medicine and also currently their children are, you know, have to go to school, but there are not enough classrooms or something, this is also one problem in IDP camps. There is a lot of children.

 

Q: Do you know why the funding was cut?

Yeah, in my opinion I think that the government already announced that they already agreed nationwide ceasefire, and they have already peace with the ethnic armed groups, something like that and then mostly the international community believes what the government announces and what the government delegates said. So that’s why they just think ‘oh there’s no need to support’ you know that kind of funds, something like that. And also one thing is the government also [does] not allow to give support to IDPs that are staying along the border, especially in KIO controlled area.

 

Q: Why do you think the government is restricting the access of aid going to these IDPs?

 I think they don’t want to support to Kachin people. They want to kill all the Kachin people.

 

Situation on the ground and the peace process

Q: You mentioned that the government claims to already have a nationwide ceasefire. What is the real situation?

Actually now [the situation] is they have not signed agreement for nationwide ceasefire, they are just negotiating on the articles, and they are adding important articles and … they are just negotiating on that. Actually they have not agreed yet, because the ethnic leaders also very careful to sign the nationwide ceasefire, because the Kachin have already experience about the ceasefire, so the firstly we need to build the trust with the government. The government also have to show to be trusted by the ethnic leaders. Now the situation is like, even though they are talking for the nationwide ceasefire and you know peace … but in Kachin area they have not stopped attacking the Kachin. [They are] not only [attacking] Kachin army but also they are attacking the Kachin people. So it is also you know destroying the trust between the government and their people.

 

Q: Why are the ethnic armed group leaders so careful with regards to signing the ceasefire agreement?

Actually the ethnic leaders, every ethnic people want to sign agreement of nationwide ceasefire. They really want to stop the fighting in ethnic areas, but they cannot trust the government because the government is not respecting their ethnic people. And also they don’t want to talk about the federalism in our country and so that’s why the ethnic leaders are making sure for more like, guarantee for ethnic rights, in that nationwide ceasefire. So what the government [wants to] sign, they are just making only for signing, they are not interested to become federalism or something like that, they are not interest in that. They want only sign to show international community. So it is a problem.

 

Q: Why is the government so keen on having this agreement to show to the international community?

If they can show to international community, [the international community] will more give power to them and support [them] and also they become like a legal government. So it is very important for them. 2010 election [was] also not free and fair election, everybody knows that, but they are trying to show the international community [that] they are legal government. Actually they are not a civil government.

 

Q: How do you see women involvement in the peace process currently?

[We think] women are really important to involve in this process because when the civil war, and every war happening, the most vulnerable people are women, so that’s why women have to involved in this peace process, and also they have to express, and they have to talk about the women’s situation and also how to, you know, protect and prevent … like sexual violence and also this kind of a lot of violations happening in the conflict areas. So that’s why women have to [be] involved and talking about that. And also, when the women can involve in this peace process we can get more sustainable peace in our country, so we believe. So that’s why it is really important, so when we lobby and advocate about women participation we [are] talking about that. Now [at] Law Khee Lar Summit, they (EAOs) already agreed at least 30% of women should participate. So long time ago we are working for women participation, at least 30% in every level of decision making.

[…] For example from the KIO, the delegates also have 30% of women participation. And also other armed groups like KNU, other groups also, they have to think on at least 30%, [of] the delegation you know. They have to have women delegation. So before is, mostly, they have no women delegation, and women can involve like a reception or cooking or like observer or something like that, not delegates. […] Currently is very few, so maybe, they also have to think, take action, on that you know, what they already agreed.

 

Q: What is the timeline for them to implement that 30%?

[There is] no timeline. But it’s also very difficult you know, talking about women participation.

 

Q: What do you think about the forthcoming general election? Do you think they will have an impact on the political landscape? Yes, I think we are not fully hoping on that coming election because now also it is not free and fair. Because the voter list also, fake, mostly you know, so that’s why we cannot believe, and we cannot hope on the 2015 election either. Because they are not amending the constitution, some articles. So how can we trust them? […] So who can be the president of Burma? It is sure that the president of Burma is from the Burmese military (laughs).

 

Q: What are the biggest problems with the 2008 Constitution, in your opinion? The biggest problem is military has the power than the government, and also in that constitution is every natural resources and everything is already not for the ethnic people, it is for the government. So there is no guarantee for ethnic people.

 

International Community and Funding

Q: How can the international community help the Kachin people?

They can help through CBOs (community based organisation) or [those] who are already working in the IDP camps, and cross border is more affective for the IDPs. Because [when] they are working with the government, if the government [does] not allow to give support, they cannot reach those IDPs. So they have to work with CBOs who already in that area.

 

Q: Currently much of the international aid and funding is going to central Burma. How do you think about this, and how can the international community give more support to the ethnic people?

Mostly, the international community like UN and also big countries like U.S. and all the big countries, I think their policy is working with the G2G, government to government, so that’s why most of the funding cannot reach to the ethnic people who are affected, you know, in war areas. And they are only interesting to give [support to the] government. It seems like [they give] more power to the government, so the government is also more attacking the ethnic people.

So, the international community should listen to the voice of the current situation and ethnic people. And also they have to support the ethnic groups, not through the government. But also directly they have to support. They have to review their policy again.

 

Q: Can you explain more about what is the problem with the money that is going to the government?

They are [giving] more support to the government, [but] now the government military has not stopped attacking the ethnic people. And also they are using a lot of money for attacking the ethnic people in northern Shan State and Kachin State. They are already using the money and scholars, you know, they are already using that. Lot of money. That money is coming from where? So we have to, you know, ask questions on that. So at the same time, the international community is [giving] a lot of money to the Burmese government. So that’s why, in that funding [there is] also no transparency, nobody can see how do they use and where has the money already gone. So we think that, they [are] already using [those funds] in attacking ethnic people. A lot of money is from the international [community] supporting [them]. So that’s why international community [should] also think and review [their] support to the government.

 

Q: Is there anything else you would like to say to the international community?

I want to say to the international community, they have to review their supporting money to the government. And also … they have to give pressure to Burmese government to have real political dialogue in our country. And they have to sincerely [observe] every process of the peace negotiation. It’s very important. So that’s why the international community has to give pressure to our government and also international community has to think and have to review of their funding which they already support to the government. And also they have to listen, you know, their (ethnic) voice from the ground situation and they have to take care and make sure of the real situation, real information. That’s really important.

And also one thing is mostly the international community are just interested to do business in our country. That’s dangerous for us. Actually we have not a peaceful country yet. That’s why they have to think about you know not doing like big development projects, like a dam or that kind of big project. After we have peace in our country, they can do. […] So in our country … the ethic issue has to [be] solved first. They have to know that situation and also have to give pressure, not listen only to the government side. But also they have to listen to the ethnic leaders and also the ground, and CBOs and ethnic people. It’s really important. International community have to do [that].

 

Q: Is there anything else you would like to say?

Yes, actually we all really want genuine peace in our country. We are really tired for working for freedom in our country, especially in our ethnic area. We really want [in] our country and every ethnic area [to] stop fighting. So it is what we really want.

As a woman, it is also very busy and very tired to do for democracy and federalism. As ethnic women, we have to struggle and fight for democracy and woman rights and also ethnic rights. So it is really you know, [we are] so tired to do that. Every step and every level. So that’s why all should listen to the women’s voice, especially ethnic women.

Burma Link interviewed Moon Nay Li at the KWAT office in Chiang Mai on July 24, 2015.