“We Lost Everything to the Government”: Refugee Interview #3

 

 

The interviewee is a Karen male whose case illustrates an amalgam of factors that forces people of Burma to become refugees. His family’s land was confiscated by the Burma Army to make way for a planned Defense Service Academy (DSA) site. The compensation was not enough to make ends meet, leaving him and his family in a cycle of debt with increasing interest. His family eventually relocated to Rangoon in 2007 to pay off the acquired debts. The 2007 Saffron movement and the subsequent crackdown by the Burma Government brought intense scrutiny on those related to the democratic movement including his aunt who was forced to relocate to the US from Rangoon due to her close relationship with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Consequently, the Burma Army began harassing his family and eventually they fled to Mae La refugee camp. The interviewee says that aid has been cut and people in the camp are “totally not” getting enough support, and “it is a lot more difficult for poor people to survive in the camp.” He says that the situation is especially dire foor the poorest and the most vulnerable, and many refugees now risk fines and arrests to meet their daily needs. In his view, Burma has not changed and he would go anywhere in the world except to the country that ruined his childhood dreams. “People like us, like me, we won’t go back to Burma at any cost. Like, even they force to go back to Burma, we won’t go back,” he says. He explains that he cannot trust the government as there is still conflict in Burma, and that “after the Kachin, I’m not so sure if they will attack the Karen.”

 

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BL: Why did you come to Mae La?

Because, it’s a long story. And it started in 1998. The Burmese troops occupied my village. Actually my parents owned a plantation, tea plantation. And they just set up a military base… They trained soldiers there, and then they wanted to occupy the region and they set up a base there.

[…]

And they just, they gave 2.3 million kyat in compensation, and if you compare to the value it’s nothing. Because we had a huge plantation there, because from generation to generation my grandma, and my great great grandmothers owned the plantation.

And then they just took it, took away from us.

 

BL: Who were you living with there?

No I didn’t live there. We owned a house in Taungoo. Because we had business in Taungoo, and then we just got raw material from that plantation and then we had like a small factory but we produced tea, tea products. Like pickled tea leaves and tea that we drink at the tea shop… And we stopped our business since then.

Everything started from that time. And we started losing everything. We started losing everything, and we sold house in Taungoo, because we were so much in debt. My family so much in debt, and we had to pay a lot of… We had to pay so much interest, and my mother had to go to Singapore.

 

BL: What happened after that?

We moved to Rangoon. We moved to Rangoon because we couldn’t… They didn’t treat us fair, they didn’t treat us fair because they wanted money back, and everyone was coming to house every day. It’s horrible to explain. And then we moved to Rangoon, and we sold the house in Taungoon… We moved to Rangoon, and we started a new life. We started a new life there, and in 2007, the uprising, Saffron Revolution, my aunt is in close relationship with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Started with that, my aunt moved to America, from Burma, not from refugee camps. My aunt applied a visa from American embassy and they just permitted to go to visit to America. When she arrived to America she sought asylum, and she got asylum. Later the Burmese military came to… The soldiers came to ask me ‘where is your aunt?’ And then we just, later on we can’t just… we didn’t feel safe to live there anymore, because I saw many political prisoners, you know, in the prison for a long time. So we decided to come to the camp.

 

BL: Did you see them come asking [for your aunt]?

Yeah, yeah of course. It started with my aunt who went to America. It started with her family. Her husband moved to the camp first, and then the whole of my aunt’s family disappeared, and then they started following up with my aunt’s relatives, which is us. It’s like a chain reaction. So we didn’t feel safe to live there. And we also got contact with my uncle, my uncle means my aunt’s husband who moved to the camp first. And then we had contact with them, and ok then [we thought] that’s a better way to start [over] somewhere else.

[…]

It feels like unsafe there [in Burma]. And there is also things, the most important, we wanted a new life, that’s why we moved to Rangoon. We hated the life that we had before, and we moved to Rangoon, but when we moved to Rangoon it started… It was happening again. It was happening again. So I think Burma is not a good place for people like us. Not for everyone I mean, for the people who have a background, a history, conflict with the military government.

 

BL: Have you been back to Burma?

I’ve never been back to Burma. Except I crossed the border once to Kok Ko. To participate in Karen New Year.

 

BL: How do you feel about living in a refugee camp?

Living in the refugee camp is like… If you look on the bright side, you have safety to live there. No one disturbing you, no soldiers disturbing and no authority coming to your house, asking about your history, asking about your past. But it’s like, no hope for… on this day, no hope for them, for their future. They cannot expect anything for their future. There is no education for young people, I mean young people mean like us, if we grew up in different country, we could be like, at my age, we could be even working at the government office. We could graduate somewhere.

I was studying in Burma, in 2007. I was studying there, in Mandalay. And then after a year, they started the demonstration. And I couldn’t sit the exam. It started in October, I’m not so sure, 2007 October. Around there. It’s almost like our final exam is about to come, and then they canceled the exam. So I wasted a year there. [I went] from Mandalay to Rangoon first, because of the demonstration I had to come back to Rangoon.

[…]

I don’t feel like I have any opportunities [in the camp], because even if you graduate from the camp based post-ten school and even the college, no one recognizes.

 

BL: Has life in the camp changed in recent years?

[…]

Every evening we have the announcement in the radio tower in the camp, every [evening they] announce that refugees are no longer allowed to commit the deforestation act, which means like cutting bamboo. Refugees no longer can leave the camp. And another thing is drugs, drug abuses. The Thai military will take serious action on the drug abuses, and they have seen a lot of drug abuses in the camp. So they will stop giving permission to the camp residents to leave the camp. They took serious action closing the camp and you know lock down the camp. Everyone has to be in the camp. This is the most obvious thing. No one can leave without camp commander’s permission. And then, another thing is, even when we ask the camp commander to go to Mae Sot, no one on the way to Mae Sot, no police ask you about the camp pass, no more. Before that we were asked a lot. You know, ‘where are you from?’, ‘where are you going?’ but since then police no longer ask people going along the road. Along the road from Mae Sot to Mae La camp.

It’s easier [with the permit] but you cannot leave the camp without the camp commander’s permission. And the police know automatically that no one leaves the camp you know… There is security, Thai police security at every gate in the camp. I mean every entrance in the camp, there is Thai security. They won’t give you permission to leave the camp without the camp commander’s permission. Before that we could just ride the line car. […] But we no longer can use that opportunity. We can’t even leave the perimeter.

 

BL: Can you see the difference in the camp and on the road?

It means that there are an uncountable number of motorcycles in the camp… too many motorcycles going inside the camp because they cannot use the outer route. They just ride motorcycles in the camp. And every motorcycle taxi have to ride in the camp, inside the camp. So everything is crowded with motorcycles, that’s the main thing.

 

BL: Do you see any difference in how people feel?

[…] During the past month, there were so much rumors, and you know people were threatened that Thai troops will come to the camp and check every house, everything, you know wipe out the camp. If anyone is suspected of committing a crime, like drug abuse and deforestation act, if someone has teak in the house, they will take serious action about that. And another thing is they have to make sand and water… both 20 bags of water and 20 bags of sand in every house. And also signaling… A bell, traditional bamboo bell, for the fire purpose. But, no troops came to the camp, they were just threatening the people. It’s kind of hard to explain unless you are an insider. If you are an insider, you feel so small, you feel so afraid of someone coming to your house and searching everything. You know that?

People were so afraid of, even selling things, they couldn’t just sell things like they had to close every shop in the camp… and we had to prepare, and no motorcycles were allowed to ride in the camp. Because the military will come in to the camp. But they just canceled, the military. The military canceled… That’s the change, as far as I see.

 

BL: Do you feel that people in the camp get enough aid and support?

Totally not. I mean absolutely not. I mean food is not enough, even rice is not enough. You can imagine that 8 kilograms for Karen people… Especially Karen people eat a lot you know, because their energy is based on the rice. They cannot afford meat and too much protein, just rice is the main food, their main intake. They depend a lot on the rice and yet they don’t have enough rice. So they have to sneak out of the camp, still now, they still sneak out of the camp, which, you know the rougher route to get out of the camp, and they find vegetables and they grow vegetables outside the camp. And then they sell it inside the camp.

 

BL: Has that changed?

It’s changed a lot. Because before… they didn’t take serious action for cutting bamboo and cutting bamboo shoots. Later they locked down the camp so it’s like carrying bamboo is not possible for them. And then they have to sneak out of the camp. And then, I haven’t seen a lot of cutting bamboo these days. Before that I saw many people crossing the main road, the high way road, by carrying bamboo, and many other stuff, the forest stuff like vegetables, everything.

They don’t get enough rice, and then the camp is closed down. It’s very hard to survive in the camp. For those who can make money in the camp, those who don’t have education, for those who don’t have idea of making money… Many people can still find a way to make money, like selling food. It’s not fair you know. The camp authority still allow people who own cars, in and outside the camp to carry goods. On the other hand, they [are] forbidding poor people to go out the camp to find vegetables. It’s not fair. So it is a lot more difficult for poor people to survive in the camp.

Rich people can do more business in the camp. On the other hand poor people can find it very difficult to survive, you know to eat, to buy food. I don’t mean that the food prices are getting higher, but poor people’s incomes are becoming less. They can’t go out to work like daily workers around Thai villages, the nearby Thai villages.

They used to do that a lot. Even the Thai employers like Thai farm owners complain that, ‘how, this is horrible time for us because we don’t have any employees. We don’t have anyone who crop the corns and yeah anything. Corn and rice.’ They complain a lot about that. Even the bus driver complained about that. ‘There is less clients day by day. I haven’t earned enough money for the oil.’            

 

BL: How do you feel about the recent developments in Burma?

I think it’s changed a lot, but it’s not in the rural area I mean. It’s only inside Burma, in the main cities like Rangoon, Mandalay, those cities. It’s changed a lot on the outer side, I mean not totally changed. It’s like a lot of business men came to the country and they supply a lot of job opportunity to the citizens. And yet they still commit a lot of human rights violations. And especially outside of those cities. Like Letpadaung, they shot the woman like they blew up the brains. I have seen a lot of changes, yet, I don’t think it’s changed, Burma has changed.

There is still conflict with the ethnic groups. Especially in Kachin State, they’re sending a lot of troops I heard. I read in the news they’re sending a lot of troops to the Kachin area. On the other hand they just want to fight with every ethnic group at once. Their strategy is fighting the groups one by one. In my opinion, after the Kachin, I’m not so sure if they will attack the Karen. I’m not so sure. You can consider it you know… I don’t think Burma has changed.

On the surface it’s changed a lot, a lot of foreigners come in, they got like three million tourists come into the country.

 

BL: Are you worried about repatriation?

No. There is one thing I worry about, because refugee life is kind of shameful… […] Actually we can’t survive in Burma, I mean like we are threatened, and we have lost so much, human rights, everything. We lost everything to them. It’s that point you know, many people don’t see that. A lot of people see that refugees are opportunity seekers. Every person even from Burma and also other foreigners, think that. Some few foreigners think that ‘opportunity seekers!’ We don’t want to work so we fled from Burma and we seek opportunity to go to resettle to the third country. It’s not like that. As for me, so that’s the point I’m afraid. When I’m repatriated, people will think that… How do I face the people that you used to know? I will become a new citizen to my own country again.

[…] I’m really afraid that I’m repatriated, but I believe that no one can force you to repatriate. I believe this is human [right], everyone has the right to choose the path. I was losing human rights in Burma so I fled to the country, which let us to cross the border, I mean Thailand, right? They let us to cross the border and we are living in Thailand, and they allow for that. They allow for that period. And then I don’t think they will force us to go back to Burma. Not on this day, maybe in the past. In Cambodia conflict, you heard that? They drove Cambodian back to Cambodia. But I think on this day you know, it’s not possible. […]

 

BL: Do you feel like in the camp you have access to accurate information about the camp and other developments for refugees?

Oh, I don’t think. You know there was… I have the picture of, I took a picture of the news on the notice board in the camp, and there is about repatriation. The security general, defense minister of Burma visited Thailand, and met with the prime minister, and then they talked about the repatriation and that everyone has to be repatriated back to Burma. But it’s written down… It’s like driving the refugees back to Burma. Before repatriation I mean. Before the final days come, the final days, like closing down the camp come, they are threatening people ‘you have to go back to the country some day.’ ‘Go back now or later,’ it’s your choice. It depends on you.

So many people go back to Burma, I have seen a lot of people go back to Burma. You know, those people who go back to Burma have a choice to live in Burma. Those are not real refugees I mean. Those are not supposed to be in the camp. Who can go back to Burma, they are not supposed to live in the camp. This is so simple. Like some people like, they lost everything to the government, they won’t go back to Burma because they don’t have anything in Burma left. They don’t have anything left in Burma. So what is it, you are going back, and what are you going to do? […]

They never tell correct to the refugees, even UNHCR. They didn’t tell that they will stop registering refugees and sending refugees to the third country. But they always say… everything is dependent on the Thai government. Everything is dependent on the government. And yet they know everything, you know the UNHCR know everything. Like the coming month, they’re going to do some kind of registration, but they just showed it to everyone last couple of days, just last couple of days. ‘It’s not giving you a refugee status.’ ‘And also you are not… […] you can be repatriated.’ And on the other hand, ‘It’s not guaranteed to go… you can settle to third country. It’s just the registration that you live here.’ They always say like that, but I’m not so sure if that information is correct or not. They just officially announce, they just officially organise meeting in the camp. Meeting, like they invited everyone, they… At least one house member had to come to that meeting. So, all the information in the camp is not correct. It may be propaganda purposes, like driving people back.

So I don’t believe any information from the camp. I can’t believe what I’ve heard. So I don’t believe anything, I just find out what I should believe.

 

BL: Do you feel that refugees are included in decision making and planning about the camp?

[…] Most of them are opinions from the powerful people, you know, like KRC (Karen Refugee Committee) and many many other organisations. I can’t explain a lot about that because I never considered about that. […] As for example, people like us, like me, we won’t go back to Burma at any cost. Like, even they force to go back to Burma, we won’t go back I mean. We don’t have any… We lost everything to Burma and I don’t want to start a new life in that country. I hate that country!

[…]

 

BL: How do you feel about your future?

My future is like not very clear, but I’ve settled my mind that I won’t go back to that country I come from. And I believe that someday, you know opportunity will come for me. A bright opportunity. I’m still… I won’t give up easily to anything. […]

I look for the future, because I expect a lot about for my future. If I grew up in the right country, like I said in the beginning, I would be someone else. […] Since I was young I expected a lot about, a lot for me. A lot for me and my family. But today I’m in the camp. Now I’m no one and I could be no one for the rest of my life, I can do that! But I’m not going back to that country who drove me to become the people now I am, you know. […]

It is not my right to choose which country I have to choose, I don’t have the right. But, I believe that someday, everyone will know about the real refugees and that… I mean we are not opportunity seekers and I had to become [not] like the person I expected once in my childhood. It’s not possible if I go back to Burma, and then everyone treating me like… Everyone would mistreat me you know. I won’t experience… I can’t experience that again.

 

BL: What do you want for your future?

I would go to any country apart from Burma. Which means third country. Even in Thailand, I could live in Thailand. If, I am legally allowed in Thailand, I will learn Thai and I will become, I will try to become like Thai people. This is my last chance. Last expectation. […] As long as not going back to repatriation I mean going back to Burma.

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